Greater humility is likely to improve our chances of persuading businesses to become regenerative vs. exploitative.
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This is really exciting and yes agree 100% about the power of movies and story. The Soil Farm here in Guernsey showed the The Big Little Farm and it was packed. A very effective way of engaging the community and encouraging people to think. I have registered a request to watch the movie but I am not as impressive as the list of screenings on your website! But small seeds and grass roots and all that!
Bt most importantly bravo to the team, what a fantastic achievement and thank you.
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I am 100% for humility, but with caveats. It depends on what we mean by “humility”. For example, I cannot approach the capitalist business model with humility when its design is profoundly anti-democratic, exploitative, and psychopathic. What is not negotiable in the degrowth narrative - and it should be the same in the wellbeing framing - is the continuation of the capitalist business model. Capitalism is not compatible with a wellbeing economy.
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@VladBunea I agree with everything you said. However what I took away from @JWGCox is that the even the best ideas delivered to an audience unwilling to listen (ie “businesspeople”) might not actually advance the goals of the wellbeing economy. I think that’s an important subject that requires caution and thought.
We strive to “grow” as people, and the word as we know it has a positive connotation. While “degrowth” in the economic sense is an imperative, businesspeople who are incentivized by capitalism will not get used to the word without first believing in something better. And if they sense their wealth threatened, they will squash burgeoning ideas of reducing inequality, because to them, that’s not better.
What happens if people like yourself advocating for a better system are branded radicals and inevitably, socialists (an effective dog whistle even if unfair and inaccurate), by businesspeople and politicians and anyone who benefits from unbridled capitalism? What if WeAll advocacy is undermined by the keepers of the current system and the message is twisted by those with more power?
The framing is too crucial to mess up. It needs a groundswell of support from common people, a populist movement where the majority of people feel strongly enough to take back the power from the over-privileged few. And it needs to be delivered in ways people absorb culture - art, music, books, comedy, etc. It may feel weak to be pragmatic when we’re past the tipping point of sustainable humanity, but I fear it would be worse to be discredited and discarded before having the opportunity to make a big impact.
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Hi @MichaelB. I guess that while the message for growth, money and a certain kind of success may be dominant, I do think there are other messages out there. I’ve been following YouTubers for years who advocate reduced consumption, wellbeing and redefining success and I engage with a lot of people on LinkedIn who are heading in the same direction. What I mean is that we could put effort into defining a common message, figuring out who to target it to and how. That would include identifying the influencers and looking at how to target them. That feels pretty concrete to me. What kind of success we might have is a big unknown, but starting somewhere (maybe by identifying and measuring the impact of messages already aligned) seems like a positive first step.
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Hi @judybackhouse that sounds great. We’re on the same page! Have you read this article below? It also tracks this same subject, and offers some interesting ideas.
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@MichaelB The something better that the business people can resonate with is: economic democracy, worker cooperatives, guilds, sufficiency, limits on income and wealth, work time reduction, public banking etc. These are all concepts promoted by degrowth. The profit motive, unlimited growth have to dissappear because they are incompatible with planetary boundaries.
I actually embrace the labels “socialst” and “radical”! They are great! Everyone should be a socialist and a radical. 
PS: I lived in Communist România in the 1980s so I’m fully aware of the historical baggage.
@MichaelB @VladBunea Yes, I have read the article and I think the criticism is valid. I agree that there is a need to address the everyday concerns of both the working and middle classes for security and a better life. But after years of working in ICT for development, civic tech and electronic governance I know that consultative measures have had little success in understanding and addressing those concerns. I am also sceptical about alternative currencies as too many have been started and failed. Indeed, I would be reluctant to propose a solution without being able to do so alongside many others (and particularly people who think differently to me). My interest at this point is how to foster dialogue in order to work towards a solution.
I think the starting point is to find common ground. For example, the suggestion in Marcus Feldthus’s Post Growth Guide that companies define ratios between their highest and lowest paid staff might be common ground as it directly addresses inequality. For me this forum is a good start, but I also want to know how to broaden the conversation.
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I often play with the idea that ‘everyone is doing what they think is best’ - although clearly this isn’t true 100% of the time… but it’s interesting to consider that even rampant capitalists may be doing what they genuinely believe is best - their journey through life has indicated to them that making money, gaining social status and acquiring political power is ‘the right thing to do’, and some part of me can accept that they may be striving for this with the best of intentions.
It seems inevitable that money/status/power is accumulated by those that most value it… and these individuals go on to set the direction of the society they have positioned themselves to have influence over, and so the paradigm is self-sustaining. Conversely, those that value intrinsic values/community/inclusion tend not to be as pushy…!
There must be some human value(s) that we all (including well-intentioned capitalists) hold, that can act as a high-level way of judging if a particular policy/action/social norm will broadly improve the state of humanity. Is this simply the non-GDP metric concept that so many people are working on?
I guess it is key to first define what we want for humanity before we can decide if we are improving it! Perhaps doing that in an inclusive way (i.e. WITH the rampant capitalists {and even extremists maybe?}) should be the focus of a unifying message?
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@judybackhouse thank you for flagging up this excellent article. I was beginning to lose faith in WEALL and these discussions as little more than an opportunity for ranting about wonderful socialism vs evil capitalism.
If WEALL is to really make a difference rather than be a siloed echo-chamber then I think it must take on board the necessity of speaking with, not talking at ordinary people. I like the idea of starting at the community level. Transition Network does this very effectively and displays mycelial connections across the globe. (The Transition Network. A mycelial catalyst inspiring hope and… | by Jeremy W G Cox | Medium). To succeed WEALL must transcend the old dogmatic politics and get the message across of what the world would be like to live in, where wellbeing economics took hold and ordinary folk had agency through participation in community assemblies.
The idea of a Commons Currency is intriguing. If I understood it right it seems to be about earning free services through demonstrable good works, especially unpaid work for societal benefit. Street heroes.
I’ve also recommended that movements like WEALL are very fragmented, and should find common ground with others e.g. Club of Rome, Capital Institute, Transition Network, and articulate an elevated vision with practical examples to inspire ordinary people and create demand. The article calls for a high degree of humility and ability to listen and empathise with people at the community level. Right now all they hear are the loud voices of populists and career party politicians dosed with freebies.
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@judybackhouse @MichaelB I agree with the maximum wage gap, i.e. 1:4 or maybe 1:6 (lowest to highest) but not more than 1:6. However, this is not enough because it still allows the entire economic base to grow, even though ratios are capped. A maximum limit on income and wealth is also required, in addition to the maximum 1:4 ratio. See 14 reasons here: 14 Reasons Why We Need to Put a MAXIMUM Limit on Wealth (starting at $10 million) | DEGROWTHIFY #10
The common ground, I believe, can be found and in my opinion has to do with the continuation of life on Earth. I think almost everyone can agree to that, even psychopathic capitalists. The next step is to build policy on the Rockstrom’s planetary boundaries framework, which requires maximum limits on production, consumption, income, wealth. Hence, degrowth.
@Oliver The common ground, I believe, can be found, and in my opinion has to do with the continuation of life on Earth. I think almost everyone can agree to that, even psychopathic capitalists. The next step is to build policy on the Rockstrom’s planetary boundaries framework, which requires maximum limits on production, consumption, income, wealth. Hence, degrowth. All these, while developing and using alternative metric to GDP, which there are plenty already.
In addition to this, capitalist businesses should consider immediate conversion to a cooperative model, worker-owned or community-owned, in full alignment with economic democracy.
@JWGCox By any chance do you have a PDF of the Mycelial Network article you could share? Would love to read it but I’m stuck at the blurb before the Medium paywall and not looking to add any more subscriptions.
Agreed that the messaging is key, and coalescing that message across like-minded organizations amplifies influence.
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@MichaelB I’ve loaded it onto Substack and made it free to view: Inbox | Substack
I’ll be transferring others soon, and I have a couple of major ones coming up in the next couple of weeks, 1 on Zoho Corporation, the other on this year’s Earthshot Prize winners. All the best
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Based on the (admittedly naïve) stance that everybody (even psychopathic capitalists) are trying to do what they think is best, the challenge is not to FORCE business owners to consider converting to an alternative model, but to somehow guide them to the conclusion that it is BEST to do so.
Can the drive for PERSONAL money/status/power be redirected via a narrative about communal resource security/mutual respect/shared autonomy?
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Thanks @VladBunea for the link to your article. I like it! A strong argument to add to point 11 is that not everyone has wages. (“As of the second quarter of 2024, the official unemployment rate in South Africa is 32.9%, with youth unemployment reaching a staggering 59.7% among those aged 15-24.”)
Also I agree 100% that limiting the wage gap is not sufficient. I was picking it as an example of something that might be easy to communicate and meaningful to the average person outside of these conversations.
My experience in a society where large swathes of people are unemployed, where there simply are no jobs for them to apply for, has led me to believe that we have to break the link between employment and the right to resources. Humans should be entitled to (and get) basics like food and water simply for being alive. But that seems to be an idea so far out there (and particularly alien to those who live in societies where most people are employed and hence fed) that it’s not something I voice often.
I also like your idea, @Oliver that most people are trying their best. Certainly in my experience of corporate work, this was the case. I think this encourages goodwill and enables engagement. The common ground certainly includes continuation of life on earth, but it also must include something about the quality of that life. So for me, it would have to include access to water, food, shelter and a sense of safety, at the very least. And in response to your last comment, I do think that business owners can be redirected (in my experience many are thoughtful individuals), but perhaps not the most psychopathic of capitalists 
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Yes, I think so. A narrative around the expansion of personal freedom AND social agency within planetary boundaries can appeal even to those driven by money/power/status. The key is to pair limitarian and sufficiency thinking with the passion for freedom.
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I agree @judybackhouse that economic rights should be expanded to include basic entitlements. This is the program of Universal Basic Services, which I strongly support, that could complement an Universal Basic Income. In addition, Job Guarantee schemes can ensure nobody is left out of employment.
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@JWGCox Thanks for sharing, there’s clearly a lot to learn from the success of the Transition Network, not the least of which is that it has taken a bite out of the overwhelming and paralyzing “polycrisis” you referred to:
the biggest problem facing us is not climate change, war, inequality, or the ‘proliferation of AI’ but a feeling at the individual level of complete powerlessness to do anything about it. (Scharmer, Poteroy 2024)
By localizing action around the things that matter to them in their communities real change is initiated and managed by smaller groups of individuals.
I also appreciate your effort identifying so many global movements and noting that they may have different approaches and niches, but generally agree on the direction of “humanity living equitably, harmoniously, and healthily within planetary boundaries,” to use your words. That’s inspiring.
How do we expand the feelings of local empowerment and global solidarity to the point it becomes mainstream thinking and action? And make this more than a rhetorical question?
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Thank you, @MichaelB. I believe it needs real collaboration among movements to set aside time to communicate a powerful message of what the world should be like, with positive examples, locally, regionally and globally. Ordinary people doing extraordinary work and regenerative businesses putting more in than they take out.
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